I feel certain an OT will be signed in FA. And will not be surprised if it is Williams. Remember, Veach is a miracle worker. And then another in the draft. Off season is fun!
Any insights from the Patriots writer on why the Pats let Thuney go? Do they have a G waiting the wings that they could afford to lose him? It has been reported that they wanted to keep him, but clearly not at the price the Chiefs paid.
I generally try to stay grounded, but I can't help fantasizing about a Trent Williams / Joe Thuney left side of the line. We'd still have some question marks along the rest of the line, but that left side would bring back memories of the early 2000s with Willie Roaf and Brian Waters.
They had Patriots beat reporter on NFL radio this morning, and he did say they had internal candiates to replace after investing a couple of draft picks in the line the last couple of years. I don't know enough about the Pats to know names and details beyond that. The beat reporter's thought was basically that given the gaping needs at receiver and tight end, they needed to save money somewhere, and this was the way they decided to go.
It came down to cost (which is funny, because Belichick is spending money like it's going out of style this FA on inferior players to Thuney) is my understanding. It was reported that NE was in it right until the end trying to keep him. Keep in mind they franchise tagged him last year. So they REALLY liked him. Just got out-bid I believe.
And you're not the only one thinking about a Williams/Thuney combo.
Seems like this move signals that Chiefs aren’t overhauling their OL philosophy (sticking with athletes rather than power) and are just looking to upgrade the quality of the OL. Too early to say? Or is it now a safe assumption since Thuney is a cornerstone piece?
I think that's quite safe to say, though Thuney isn't a scrub either way. Definitely at his best doing what we've gotten used to seeing Chiefs guards do, though.
I don’t think the chiefs will get Williams. It’d be great if they do but I’m leaning toward a hard pass with him. Feel like the plan is to draft an LT/RT and let Niang, Thuney, LDT and resign Reuter (if possible or Draft pick) figure it out with secondary depth signings after the June cuts. This will complete the rebuild and get young on the line to grow with Patrick and still leave day 2&3 picks for depth and those diamonds in the rough picks~~~ 😬😏
If they manage to sign (by essentially outbidding SF) T. Williams, I’m almost positive it’s because Clark Hunt knows how much the cap will go up the next couple of years with him being on the finance committee. Insider trading is illegal.... 😂😅🙄
"He’s always in the right spot, regardless of what happens on the play, and almost always gets enough of a defender to allow room for the runner to get by."
I know this part was about the running game but holy cow am I salivating while thinking about him in Andy's screen game...
I saw a report yesterday that Kyle Long was visiting with the Chiefs. Is that relevant now? Would he be a depth piece?
All of a sudden, interior line feels really solid, I guess depending on what happens with the center position. (IIRC, one of the reasons Allegretti was acquired was ability to play center?) But I feel pretty good going in with Thuney, Dr. LDT, Allegretti, and hopefully KO or another back-up piece.
I'm curious if Long is for depth at RG, or perhaps the spot entirely. I know we all assume LDT will be back, but I've never actually heard it reported that he's planning on doing so.
I read a profile of him during the break between the AFC title game and the Super Bowl about how he had spent the season since opting out. It was mostly a puff piece (wonderful puff piece - good on him for what he has done in the last year!) so take it with a grain of salt, but in it he talked about getting stronger to get ready for the offseason program, and that with vaccines and the virus numbers starting to decline he was excited to get his playing career going. I was as convinced from that he was coming back as I was Mitch's instagram post after surgery. And we all know how that turned out.
Geoff Schwartz posted about Long spending an entire season at RT. He has evidently lost some weight in his year off, so maybe he is a depth piece for both LDT and Niang?
I am really hoping for Villanueva and an early draft pick on a tackle for depth and to start in 2022 or 2023. Unless they can package enough picks to get to a stud like Sewell, but that seems very unlikely.
There has been a lot of OL overhaul, with probably one more move to come. But there is still need for an edge rusher, linebacker help, another receiver, etc. I almost feel like we are overreacting to the Super Bowl - with our tackles, I am convinced we win that game. But there are other places for improvement, too.
I think Niang is their guy, but that could be the case. I really, really want to see them grab a veteran LT in free agency who can still play (rather than a hope and a prayer).
I wanted Reiff, but he's gone now. Pickings are slim. VIllanueva and Okung are really it in terms of guys who are available who have played at an average to above-average level consistently.
By the way.... suspiciously silent on Watkin’s market front.... a reflection on the saturated WR market I suppose. Will he be back on a minimum contract? Would the chiefs want him is a better question. 🧐
For me, if the Chiefs could GUARANTEE Watkins would be healthy, I'd love for him to be back on a cheap deal. But I just can't trust it at this point. We're three years in and he's missed time every one of them, or had to play limited.
So you have talked about how Thuney, Morse, and Schwartz are great technicians. How does this happen. I mean all of these guys are NFL athletes, so coordination should not be a problem. How do some guys always get their hands in the right place? Is this something that can be learned? Does having a guy like Thuney help other interior linemen become better technicians? Is it a matter of spending time learning technique? ( and if so, why wouldn’t every NFL lineman do this)
The difference of 1 percent in hand-eye coordination or mental processing is going to show up at such a high level. So a lot of these guys max out on the best they can do, and it's just a fraction different (but that fraction is huge).
It's also a sum of the parts. Having significantly better natural balance allows you to focus more on your hands, or having naturally faster hands allows you to focus more on the feet, etc.
Those tiny advantages mean a lot. And some guys do put in a little more work or are a little better coached.
Thanks Seth for the breakdown. I've been anxious for this since the news broke. I'm curious about what Veach's plan is at LT now. Seems like the traditional wisdom would be draft a LT in the 1st and get a serviceable vet LT to hold the spot until he is surpassed by the rookie using Thuney to assist, but all the chatter is on getting Williams. If we go that route then do we move Thuney to RG to spread out the studs or just make the blindside a brick wall?
Great breakdown, that is a very impressive loss rate for sure! I still hope we draft an LT 1st round or have one more splash signing for a tackle
Nice start for the off-season....but the tackle situation is making me nervous
I'd give it a little bit. I don't believe they're done throwing money at the OL.
Maybe Trent wants a SB win!
Here's hoping. There are several good options out there besides him as well that would help keep the OL in a decent spot.
I feel certain an OT will be signed in FA. And will not be surprised if it is Williams. Remember, Veach is a miracle worker. And then another in the draft. Off season is fun!
Any insights from the Patriots writer on why the Pats let Thuney go? Do they have a G waiting the wings that they could afford to lose him? It has been reported that they wanted to keep him, but clearly not at the price the Chiefs paid.
I generally try to stay grounded, but I can't help fantasizing about a Trent Williams / Joe Thuney left side of the line. We'd still have some question marks along the rest of the line, but that left side would bring back memories of the early 2000s with Willie Roaf and Brian Waters.
They had Patriots beat reporter on NFL radio this morning, and he did say they had internal candiates to replace after investing a couple of draft picks in the line the last couple of years. I don't know enough about the Pats to know names and details beyond that. The beat reporter's thought was basically that given the gaping needs at receiver and tight end, they needed to save money somewhere, and this was the way they decided to go.
If I were NE, I'd be more worried about the gaping hole at QB. Lol
It came down to cost (which is funny, because Belichick is spending money like it's going out of style this FA on inferior players to Thuney) is my understanding. It was reported that NE was in it right until the end trying to keep him. Keep in mind they franchise tagged him last year. So they REALLY liked him. Just got out-bid I believe.
And you're not the only one thinking about a Williams/Thuney combo.
Seems like this move signals that Chiefs aren’t overhauling their OL philosophy (sticking with athletes rather than power) and are just looking to upgrade the quality of the OL. Too early to say? Or is it now a safe assumption since Thuney is a cornerstone piece?
I think that's quite safe to say, though Thuney isn't a scrub either way. Definitely at his best doing what we've gotten used to seeing Chiefs guards do, though.
I don’t think the chiefs will get Williams. It’d be great if they do but I’m leaning toward a hard pass with him. Feel like the plan is to draft an LT/RT and let Niang, Thuney, LDT and resign Reuter (if possible or Draft pick) figure it out with secondary depth signings after the June cuts. This will complete the rebuild and get young on the line to grow with Patrick and still leave day 2&3 picks for depth and those diamonds in the rough picks~~~ 😬😏
I don't know how I'd feel about a draft pick at LT right away. It can happen, but it's tough to jump in and play well immediately.
If they manage to sign (by essentially outbidding SF) T. Williams, I’m almost positive it’s because Clark Hunt knows how much the cap will go up the next couple of years with him being on the finance committee. Insider trading is illegal.... 😂😅🙄
Shhh don't tell!
Wish is balance is amazing he is able to keep his cog under him under the worst conditions. Those Donald vids really show his ability in that regard
Wow his—not wish
Absolutely, and it's a big part of why he does so well in pass pro. He's very difficult to unbalance and allow defenders to get a head of steam.
"He’s always in the right spot, regardless of what happens on the play, and almost always gets enough of a defender to allow room for the runner to get by."
I know this part was about the running game but holy cow am I salivating while thinking about him in Andy's screen game...
I imagine scheme fit was a big part of their consideration.
I saw a report yesterday that Kyle Long was visiting with the Chiefs. Is that relevant now? Would he be a depth piece?
All of a sudden, interior line feels really solid, I guess depending on what happens with the center position. (IIRC, one of the reasons Allegretti was acquired was ability to play center?) But I feel pretty good going in with Thuney, Dr. LDT, Allegretti, and hopefully KO or another back-up piece.
I'm curious if Long is for depth at RG, or perhaps the spot entirely. I know we all assume LDT will be back, but I've never actually heard it reported that he's planning on doing so.
I read a profile of him during the break between the AFC title game and the Super Bowl about how he had spent the season since opting out. It was mostly a puff piece (wonderful puff piece - good on him for what he has done in the last year!) so take it with a grain of salt, but in it he talked about getting stronger to get ready for the offseason program, and that with vaccines and the virus numbers starting to decline he was excited to get his playing career going. I was as convinced from that he was coming back as I was Mitch's instagram post after surgery. And we all know how that turned out.
Ha! Right. Tough to say what people will do. I hope he's back and returns to his 2018 form.
Geoff Schwartz posted about Long spending an entire season at RT. He has evidently lost some weight in his year off, so maybe he is a depth piece for both LDT and Niang?
I am really hoping for Villanueva and an early draft pick on a tackle for depth and to start in 2022 or 2023. Unless they can package enough picks to get to a stud like Sewell, but that seems very unlikely.
There has been a lot of OL overhaul, with probably one more move to come. But there is still need for an edge rusher, linebacker help, another receiver, etc. I almost feel like we are overreacting to the Super Bowl - with our tackles, I am convinced we win that game. But there are other places for improvement, too.
I think Niang is their guy, but that could be the case. I really, really want to see them grab a veteran LT in free agency who can still play (rather than a hope and a prayer).
Who do you think they should target with the remaining free agents at left tackle ?
I wanted Reiff, but he's gone now. Pickings are slim. VIllanueva and Okung are really it in terms of guys who are available who have played at an average to above-average level consistently.
By the way.... suspiciously silent on Watkin’s market front.... a reflection on the saturated WR market I suppose. Will he be back on a minimum contract? Would the chiefs want him is a better question. 🧐
The entire WR market is rough.
For me, if the Chiefs could GUARANTEE Watkins would be healthy, I'd love for him to be back on a cheap deal. But I just can't trust it at this point. We're three years in and he's missed time every one of them, or had to play limited.
These player breakdowns with metrics are my favorite category of your articles. Thanks Seth!
Glad you enjoy, it's been fun to get back to them! I plan on having a lot more :)
It's Taco Tuesday!
Nice signing to bring him back for another shot at a "prove it" year.
Think the chiefs make a run at Hudson?
I would, though Andrews would be a really nice option as well.
So you have talked about how Thuney, Morse, and Schwartz are great technicians. How does this happen. I mean all of these guys are NFL athletes, so coordination should not be a problem. How do some guys always get their hands in the right place? Is this something that can be learned? Does having a guy like Thuney help other interior linemen become better technicians? Is it a matter of spending time learning technique? ( and if so, why wouldn’t every NFL lineman do this)
The difference of 1 percent in hand-eye coordination or mental processing is going to show up at such a high level. So a lot of these guys max out on the best they can do, and it's just a fraction different (but that fraction is huge).
It's also a sum of the parts. Having significantly better natural balance allows you to focus more on your hands, or having naturally faster hands allows you to focus more on the feet, etc.
Those tiny advantages mean a lot. And some guys do put in a little more work or are a little better coached.
Thanks Seth for the breakdown. I've been anxious for this since the news broke. I'm curious about what Veach's plan is at LT now. Seems like the traditional wisdom would be draft a LT in the 1st and get a serviceable vet LT to hold the spot until he is surpassed by the rookie using Thuney to assist, but all the chatter is on getting Williams. If we go that route then do we move Thuney to RG to spread out the studs or just make the blindside a brick wall?
The problem with a rookie LT at the end of the first round is you're basically taking a flyer at that point.
I'd go with Villanueva or Reiff, then grab a center as well and go for a "no weak spots" approach.