Joe Thuney is a Chief. What did his 2020 film look like?
Examining multiple games of the coveted guard, with a comparison that is the highest praise I can give.
In hindsight, it feels a little inevitable.
When I wrote last week about big swings that the Chiefs could make in free agency, star guard Joe Thuney was one of my top two choices (the other was Trent Williams, which as I write is still in play though unlikely). The Chiefs desperately needed a star on the offensive line and to shore up the interior, and with Thuney they got both. They paid for it, too. BUT, in true “the NFL salary cap is a goofy thing” form, they left themselves with room to continue to shop around.
So what did the Chiefs get in Thuney, a stalwart in New England who Bill Belichick valued enough to franchise tag last year? As always, there’s only one way to find out: by looking at multiple games against varied opponents and charting every snap. Looking at individual plays can reveal traits, but only over time can we see who a player really is.
With that in mind, I looked at every snap of four games Thuney played last season over the course of the year, trying to mix up the opponent type in order to provide a good sample size. That includes a game against the Los Angeles Rams and monster/alien defensive tackle Aaron Donald. We’ll talk about his production, then look at some of his strengths/weaknesses (the strengths portion is going to be longer.
If you’ve never read an article I’ve written about an offensive lineman, I chart every pass blocking and run blocking down for wins, losses, and neutral snaps (“PBW” = pass block win, “PBL” = pass block loss, and the same with run blocking), as well as for pressures/hits/sacks allowed on the quarterback. A win is a snap in which the lineman executes an excellent 1x1 block or a great combo block (starting with a double team then getting into space alone). A loss is when a blocker gets beaten or misses a block. A neutral snap is when the blocker might give ground but fights the defender to a draw, or has little to do on the snap.
It’s worth noting that losses are far, far more important than wins for offensive linemen, as in general a dominant block doesn’t guarantee that a play succeeds but losing on a snap can doom a play to failure. So a player having a high win percentage matters a lot less than a low loss percentage, and “neutral” snaps are still a victory of sorts (especially against elite competition. With that in mind, here are Thuney’s numbers in the games I reviewed.
Over the years, the standard I’ve held for offensive linemen has changed a bit. I used to view a 10% “loss percentage” on average as the goal for a starter. Now I see it as more an absolute must, particularly for an interior lineman who will often times be participating in double teams rather than having an individual to help.
As you can see, Thuney easily met this mark in every game I charted with flying colors, including several tough matchups against different types of players (Baltimore’s beef, Miami’s quicker players, and the Rams’ monsters). He was consistently an asset as both a pass protector and a run blocker in every game I charted. Let’s start with pass protection, the obvious area of importance with Patrick Mahomes under center. Thuney is an incredibly technically sound blocker whose hand placement and foot movement is often nearly, flawless.
Watch Thuney’s feet, then hands as he holds up 1x1 against a bull rush here. He’s constantly churning and resetting his feet with a wide base while keeping low to the ground. This helps him stay balanced and avoid getting moved backwards or giving the defender leverage to try and toss him one direction or another. In the meantime, he is continuously fighting to get his hands underneath the pads of the rusher after initially getting beaten to the placement, and adjusts quickly to a good upward swipe from the rusher.
Thuney isn’t an overpowering interior lineman and doesn’t have massive size, but he’s rarely beaten by bull rushes (the primary move of most interior linemen) because of his active feet and hands. He almost always ends up with great pad level and hand placement while churning his legs with a good base. Even if he gets pushed back initially he resets fluidly and forces rushers to earn every inch. This is true regardless of the quality of the opponent he faces.
Going up against the best defensive player on earth in Aaron Donald, Thuney held his own (I charted Thuney 1x1 against Donald 7 times, with 4 wins, 2 neutral, and 1 really rough loss) in large part due to his technical proficiency. Donald gets a big push initially inside Thuney’s pads here, but Thuney immediately resets his feet and hands to get back into position to counter a power rush. Donald, being an absurd player, quickly transitions from power to a rip move. Thuney, just as quickly, alters his style from fighting the bull rush to looking to direct Donald around the pocket, which he does. It’s an excellent rep against an impossible player to block.
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Thuney’s lack of elite size/power is more than made up for by the fact that he rarely allows himself to be taken off balance and is always winning the leverage war. And when it’s time to transition to guiding players around the pocket, he does that well.
Of course, even excellent players get beaten at the snap at times, whether it’s getting caught with the wrong leverage or some other issue. When that happens to Thuney, he generally doesn’t panic and fights to save the snap.
This is a tough snap for Thuney initially, as Donald manages to shove him to one side and gain a window to sprint towards the quarterback. However, Thuney’s base gives him the ability to quickly recover his balance even when moved at the snap, and he immediately transitions into utilizing Donald’s momentum against him to shove him around the pocket. This isn’t a win, but it’s not a loss either, as he’s able to keep his quarterback from direct pressure. Given the way the snap started out, that’s somewhat remarkable.
This recovery ability showed up more than once over the course of four games, and it’s a big reason why Thuney was able to avoid losses at such an elite level. Whether it was against power or speed, when Thuney gets beaten initially his wide base, pad level, and active hands almost always allow him to reset and “die a slow death” that allows the quarterback to get rid of the ball before any real pressure arrives.
In team pass protection, Thuney has active eyes and doesn’t get fooled often by stunts or blitzes.
When you’re tasked with helping block Donald, it would be easy to get sucked into that assignment. But here, Thuney doesn’t fall into that trap. He provides active and aggressive help against Donald early, but keeps his eyes up and sees a delayed defender looping around. The eye discipline and his combination of balance and lateral agility allows him to redirect the rusher around the pocket. It’s not a flashy snap, but it might be my favorite rep of Thuney’s when thinking about areas the Chiefs struggled last season on the interior dealing with this sort of play. He made the center’s job much easier without sacrificing the rest of the protection.
Thuney’s eyes make him an asset against blitzes, both before they arrive and after. He’s a willing helper along the line as he waits for blitzers to arrive (knowing he has an extra moment) but isn’t often taken by surprise or off his leverage when they do. He’s also very willing to look for work and recognize where he can help fellow linemen when he’s left uncovered.
It’s easy to see why the Chiefs coveted Thuney when watching him in pass protection. He’s smart, consistent, and was asked to block defenders alone more consistently than one might often see with an interior lineman. He also played up to good competition. Mahomes has had to deal with consistently inconsistent interior pass protection, and the addition of Thuney should be a huge help in that area. In addition, Thuney’s capable feet allow him to be pulled to the edge even as a pass blocker and hold his own against smaller, faster defenders, which should give the Chiefs the ability to mix up their protection looks and keep defenses off balance.
Thuney was also a significant asset as a run blocker for the Patriots. Again, he’s not a powerhouse and shouldn’t be counted on to consistently move massive defensive tackles 1x1 (we’ll get to his size/power when we discuss the few weaknesses in his game). But much like with his pass protection, his hands/feet are consistently in position to allow him to gain leverage, and he shows great understanding of angles and how to wall defenders off from running lanes.
The Patriots often asked Thuney to pull into space, and he was almost always in the right spot at the right moment while getting a hat on a defender, adjusting the angle of his block based on the situation.
I could have pulled a half-dozen examples of Thuney pulling and sticking his block from any one of the games I reviewed, and the results would have been very similar. Whether he was asked to take on a bigger defensive end, a linebacker, or a faster secondary defender, Thuney consistently was able to get to the right spot and open a hole for the running back to get through. The Patriots counted on him winning these blocks consistently as a major part of their run game.
Thuney’s awareness and athleticism makes him able to close distances and get just enough of defenders, whether it’s at the second level or desperately making a play work despite a defender getting a great jump on the play.
This play is an excellent example of singular effort turning a dead play into a live one. The edge is off the ball incredibly fast here and recognizes that it’s going to be a run. Thuney is just as quick to recognize that his assignment is not playing contain and is already in the backfield, and alters his trajectory quickly to get a shoulder into the defender and allow the running back to sprint by. What could be a loss turns into a gain.
The plus athleticism and awareness to make this play is what makes Thuney a good run blocker. He’s always in the right spot, regardless of what happens on the play, and almost always gets enough of a defender to allow room for the runner to get by. After a season where the interior struggled to hit their blocks on the line or get into space effectively with consistency, that should help Clyde Edwards-Helaire and the run game.
Thuney isn’t a powerhouse when asked to take on defenders straight-on, but has more than enough to help execute combo blocks and then climb to the second level.
The key on plays like this isn’t driving the defender back 5 yards (though that’s certainly welcome), but to move him enough to create a lane for the runner and then getting to the next level and getting movement against the linebacker or safety waiting for the play to develop. Thuney does so consistently and should help the run game churn out yardage in those situations.
When asked to block defenders 1x1 and try to generate some movement up front, Thuney isn’t a player who is going to overpower defenders on his own consistently the way you’ll see from Nelson or other larger guards. Instead, his game in this situation is predicated on sealing off lanes and preventing the defender from moving him, and his feet/hands/leverage allow him to win the block the majority of the time. He’s also exceptional at understanding how to move in conjunction with the runner to keep his body between the defender and the play.
Thanks to a timely ankle placement by the left tackle, this play ends in an eye-pleasing pancake. That’s not generally how Thuney’s blocks end, though he fights hard and tries to finish with consistency. But you can see how his pad level, base, and hand placement allows him to keep leverage on the defender and turn him sideways to give the running back a lane to get through.
Thuney is not a perfect player. His lack of elite size means that if he doesn’t have his feet/hands right when a player tries to bull rush him, he can get knocked back quickly. Several of his worst plays had this exact scenario against the Rams, and it’s why he gave up one of his hits and one of his pressures. If he’s asked to consistently match up against a big, powerful bull rusher, there’s always the chance he gets taken by surprise with a move and ends up in the quarterback’s lap. It was very rare last year, but when a player lacks elite power and relies on technique that’s a risk.
That lack of Osemele-like power can show up in the run game at times as well. The Chiefs have long struggled to move opposing defensive lines off the ball, and I don’t believe Thuney is necessarily a solution to that issue (though he won’t be part of the problem either). He’s a willing driver and will get good pad level in those situations, but he’s simply not big/heavy enough to be a dominant force to move the line.
Thuney makes up for that lack of elite size and power by being constantly correct in what he does with his hands and feet. He’s analogous to former Chiefs center Mitch Morse in that respect, though he’s slightly less athletic and slightly more powerful than Morse. Needless to say (though I’ll say it anyways), being compared to Morse as an interior lineman is one of the highest compliments I can give a player in terms of technical proficiency.
I reached out to Evan Lazar, who covers the New England for CLNS Media and is an excellent follow for all things Patriots, with a level head and good eye for what is really happening on the field. When asked to provide his thoughts on Thuney, he said the following:
As many have said, Thuney was one of the Patriots’ most reliable players over the last five seasons. He plays every snap, plays hard, and is a highly intelligent player. What stands out about him is that he’s truly a tackle playing guard in terms of pass protection. His pass sets are balanced, his footwork and ability to mirror interior rushers is tremendous, and he’s excellent at anchoring and working his hands to win late in the rep. Although he’s not a road grader, he’s a very athletic run blocker and is more than capable of moving people on doubles/combos. He’s excellent in space as a puller, on outside runs, and screens; an elite athlete for the position. His timing up to the second level and radar on the move are also excellent. I can’t say enough good things about Thuney. He’s one of the best offensive lineman of the Belichick era.
This is very high praise when considering all the linemen that have come and gone over the last 20 years in New England and played at a high level, but based on my review of Thuney’s tape it is well-earned.
The Chiefs still have work to do on the offensive line, but grabbing Thuney as an anchor on the inside was an excellent start to ensuring that Mahomes will have the protection he needs and getting the run game back on track. He’s very often a big part of why a play will succeed, and almost never why it fails. That’s about all one can ask for from an interior lineman, and it will be exciting to see his impact this season.
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Great breakdown, that is a very impressive loss rate for sure! I still hope we draft an LT 1st round or have one more splash signing for a tackle
Nice start for the off-season....but the tackle situation is making me nervous