Why do you pass over his terrible throws? Pat missed a lot of targets. He overthrew 84 "again" and missed kelce again. He needs a quarterback coach that will work on his basics.
Whereas some people need a reading coach that will work on their basics.
"Mahomes wasn’t perfect last night. He had a costly red zone interception on a poor throw (the decision was fine, but he threw it behind Watson and gave the defender a chance at the ball). He also missed a throw to Kelce deep (on a play he had a checkdown option) on 3rd down coming out of halftime, a drive that could have potentially buried the Eagles and put the game out of reach. He’s not perfect, and has been more imperfect than normal in spurts this season."
I also disagree with the implied premise that one needs to write about ALL things to write about one thing.
I do the Mahomes film reviews every week and will take on his play in full then, I promise! IDK how many targets he missed, etc
And that Watson miss was on Watson. Mahomes put it on the sideline assuming Watson would run a straight line, and Watson broke inside for some reason, costing himself multiple yards. I'll double check the all 22, but I think he gets to that if he runs the route correctly.
Don't forget a similar situation earlier in the game with MVS running the wrong route which would have led to a long gain or TD. These guys are simply not on the same page as Patrick, and in most cases it appears (as a layman, anyway) that Patrick is making the right read and the WR are not. It seems to me that the receivers' lack of ability to read defenses is what is holding back the offense. That's what made Juju so effective, and what Kelce has done so well for so long. After 10 games, these guys have shown they are not capable of doing it, or they would have started doing it by now.
Dan Orlovsky did a good breakdown of this route. He said that since the safety stayed in the middle of the field, Watson should have read to make the route a go route, not a post. He didn't read it correctly and Mahomes did
Also, this team looked terrible for coming off a bye week. That seems to sum up this season, not well coached. Way to many turnovers, penalties, players out of position.
Well, I should clarify... A lot of failed issues and I'm concerned about attention to detail on the coaching end for sure. But a LOT of what I saw were execution failures that I can guarantee you are coached.
Idk about the coaching. We really dominated them from a coaching standpoint in the 1st half. Drops are generally not a coaching issue IMO. Clearly more of a personnel issue.
I agree. If MVS catches the ball that fell into his hands, and Kelce doesn't fumble, the Chiefs score 31 points. That's leaving aside any other points they would have scored if not for all of the other drops. 31 points against the Eagles would be a huge statement, especially given the smash-mouth way they played most of the game. The offense imposed its will on Philly until the mistakes overloaded the positives. The defense was amazing.
And maybe even in the 2nd half. They didn't account for Swift (getting tired of that joke), but the Chiefs essentially neutralized Hurts and Brown. A difficult feat.
The penalties...it's also getting tiring to hear myself complain about the officiating and they love being 'involved' in the game. But it's getting to the point anytime a ball is thrown in Sneed's direction, there's a yellow marker. It's amazing how well he's able to play considering. And the O-line, sheesh, even Humphrey was allowed to partake.
Agreed. You didn't even mention the blatant DPI on Kelce downfield during the free play. There was a whole SI article about it. That false start vs offsides penalty was also a back breaker given the moment and I literally have never seen that as a fan of the NFL. I still don't understand what they called. Centers consistently put the ball back down to do adjustments like Creed did and the defensive player jumped into the neutral zone causing a reaction by Taylor. Seems pretty clear cut but the difference was 10 yards. Insane
centers DO do that regularly. The rule of thumb is they can't make quick or abrupt movements-- that makes the defense believe the play has begun... They were saying creed did what he did too quickly, and THAT is what the defender reacted to.. Terrible call. Didnt look any different from any other time he has done it. And that made our 3rd down conversion even harder. That was a TERRIBLE call. And a back breaker
Besides KC wasted two timeouts in the first half because they only had 10 players on the field, once on offense and once on defense. You could hear Kelce yelling on the broadcast "What the f@ck are we doing" while the broadcast showed Reids face repeatedly saying "Stop, stop" haha.
Watching MVS live in the stadium all night, I'm not sure why he's on the field. Stats bear it out that he's one of the least productive receivers in the league. Kelce's fumble reminded me of his one against the Bengals last year. Just can't have it.
Kelce's fumble was unbelievably painful, but it's not like the fundamentals were flawed. He had both hands on the ball and, while he was fighting for yards, it wasn't one of those plays where he should have just gone down. Sometimes the other guys make plays too. Roby managed to punch the ball in the perfect spot to get it to squirt out in spite of Kelce doing what you're supposed to do to maintain ball control.
This! Emphatically this! Sometimes the other team makes a great play. It sucks for us as Chiefs fans, but we played a great team last night and came up just short.
MVS should be out by the curb with the rest of our garbage on trash day. This isn't the only game he has been a disappointment. I'm speechless how disjointed our offensive offense has been. Play calling, decisions, execution. As a STH I've seen worse. But out of way worse players. I about don't want to go to the games. I can be pissed off at home without traveling hundreds of miles and devoting a day to it. Translation: They are losing my trust.
I also dislike his penchant for fielding punts inside the 10 and sometimes even the 5 yard line. It is simple: put your heels on the 10 and do not back up to field a punt.
I blame the distractions caused by a certain group of podcasters who seemed to think running a joke about sexual innuendo into the ground was more important than putting in extra time on the JUGS machine.
My goodness was that game frustrating. I can't imagine what it was like from Mahomes' perspective.
Was that on the Manning-cast? I usually like when it's just the two of them. But then it gets watered down when guest stars come on with them. A continuous 'jugs' joke sounds more like an 810 theme :)
Ha. So it WAS 810 based. If they'd have had Steven St. John on, they could've gotten lots of mileage out of it. (Can't think of any good suitable jokes at the moment. I'll have go back to junior high and sneak in to watch "Porky's")
The team is incredibly frustrating to watch. The only solution, in my mind, is to blow up the receiver room this offseason. Start with Rice, Toney and Moore (all on rookie contracts) and bring in at least two new receivers who have proven themselves in the league. The turnovers and penalties are frustrating, for sure, but the dropped passes are simply a concentration issue and there’s no excuse for them to continue at the rate they have all season.
Just replace MVS with DHop in the off season like Veach should have done last off season. He's on a two year contract with Tennessee that I think he can get out of his second year. You have to think Veach, Mahomes and Hopkins are regretting there decisions.
I'm sure you are correct. I need to stay away from comments after a loss. I really do appreciate your writing on the Chiefs. Please ignore me...I'm just so sick at how they lost.
This is a safe place for venting. I stayed up 2 hours after the game and then stared at the ceiling another two hours after that.
The one thing we know is that our team has rock solid leadership. Reid and Mahomes know how to learn from setbacks and inspire the team to get better. One bad game does not spill into the next with this team.
Right on.... Its middle of the Season and we played a good team. ALOT can happen in 2 months. We stay healthy, Reid and Co. will fix this... We are better roster wise than previous years: Notwithstanding the WR room.
Philadelphia is currently the best team in the NFL and we should have won by 10 points, if we just had average receivers. We still almost beat them anyway. I'm guessing we see them or the 49ers in the SB.
Heartbreaking game. We are spoiled, as you note @Seth, but goodness some rain is not excuse for profressional receivers to drop passes over and over. Watson and MVS may not have what it takes. The youngins maybe, but we will never know unless Andy give them a realistic shot.
“They can catch the ball or they can get replaced by those that will catch it. It’s just as simple as that. Like I’ve often said, I expect guys to make routine plays routinely. When there’s a pattern of that not happening, then we have to look at who we throw the ball to.”
Not sure if the film agrees with it, or even how to check data on it, but just on what I'm seeing live -- I feel like the Chiefs don't throw over the middle with any consistency. This makes them really predictable, since every route drawn up so that inevitable drops aren't INTs. Which lets defenders adjust and cheat a bit as the game goes on, and the 2nd half offensive numbers show it.
This article was cathartic and brilliantly summed up what happened and how I feel. Thank you for this gift. On the positive side: the Chiefs are half a game back for 1st in the AFC and just lost a game they should have won against arguably the best team in the NFL. It could be worse.
Glad you mentioned Jakobi Meyers. There had been so much discussion about the Chiefs needing a top tier ($$$$) WR, but that never seemed feasible. However, you suggest that a red chip player...or two... like him could have worked out nicely. (I forget how blue chip vs. red chip is supposed to be used in the context of football or art).
Even more than Mahomes or the fans, it seems like this defense is being robbed of a season that will be difficult to replicate next year.
I agree that Veach and Reid missed on evaluating the receivers this year and there need to be major changes next season. But for this season, what needs to happen is for MVS to be inactive every game, Watson to be on the field 25% of the snaps (so Mahomes can’t target him every time), and Moore 25%. Which would leave the majority of snaps (besides Kelce) for the guy they take out every time he catches the ball who happens to be their best receiver, Toney, Hartman, maybe James, and Noah Gray who seems to have disappeared.
I know I’m just rationalizing but is it possible that during the bye they took your advice and decided to stop playing musical chairs at receiver and decided to feature a wide receiver each week until one steps up, and this was Watson’s week? I mean that seems pretty unscientific, especially against a quality opponent, but I was hoping they could fix things during the bye week and now that that didn’t pan out, I got to keep moving the goal post to find reasons to be optimistic and hopeful. Right?
Speaking of optimism, not bad short yardage this week (aside from that one punt).
Endlessly frustrating to watch Rice make a nice play and immediately head to the sideline. Maybe Veach needs to what he did to Spags when he kept playing Hitchens over Bolton, just release people and force Reid to play the youngsters.
Why do you pass over his terrible throws? Pat missed a lot of targets. He overthrew 84 "again" and missed kelce again. He needs a quarterback coach that will work on his basics.
Whereas some people need a reading coach that will work on their basics.
"Mahomes wasn’t perfect last night. He had a costly red zone interception on a poor throw (the decision was fine, but he threw it behind Watson and gave the defender a chance at the ball). He also missed a throw to Kelce deep (on a play he had a checkdown option) on 3rd down coming out of halftime, a drive that could have potentially buried the Eagles and put the game out of reach. He’s not perfect, and has been more imperfect than normal in spurts this season."
Sorry, I'm grumpy.
All due respect, but I didn't.
I also disagree with the implied premise that one needs to write about ALL things to write about one thing.
I do the Mahomes film reviews every week and will take on his play in full then, I promise! IDK how many targets he missed, etc
And that Watson miss was on Watson. Mahomes put it on the sideline assuming Watson would run a straight line, and Watson broke inside for some reason, costing himself multiple yards. I'll double check the all 22, but I think he gets to that if he runs the route correctly.
I believe you’re correct on the Watson pass. I’m not sure exactly what he was doing on that play. Clearly wasn’t on the same page with Mahomes
Don't forget a similar situation earlier in the game with MVS running the wrong route which would have led to a long gain or TD. These guys are simply not on the same page as Patrick, and in most cases it appears (as a layman, anyway) that Patrick is making the right read and the WR are not. It seems to me that the receivers' lack of ability to read defenses is what is holding back the offense. That's what made Juju so effective, and what Kelce has done so well for so long. After 10 games, these guys have shown they are not capable of doing it, or they would have started doing it by now.
I think there's some real truth in there re Juju's ability in this offense. It played to his strengths.
I mean, it's possible this was a new route they came up with during the bye week: go-post-pirouette-fade. Just the timing was off!
When did he overthrow Watson? The play where Watson ran a post instead of a go? Clearly from Mahomes and Reid's reaction, Watson ran the wrong route
Dan Orlovsky did a good breakdown of this route. He said that since the safety stayed in the middle of the field, Watson should have read to make the route a go route, not a post. He didn't read it correctly and Mahomes did
Also, this team looked terrible for coming off a bye week. That seems to sum up this season, not well coached. Way to many turnovers, penalties, players out of position.
I completely agree!
Well, I should clarify... A lot of failed issues and I'm concerned about attention to detail on the coaching end for sure. But a LOT of what I saw were execution failures that I can guarantee you are coached.
Idk about the coaching. We really dominated them from a coaching standpoint in the 1st half. Drops are generally not a coaching issue IMO. Clearly more of a personnel issue.
I agree. If MVS catches the ball that fell into his hands, and Kelce doesn't fumble, the Chiefs score 31 points. That's leaving aside any other points they would have scored if not for all of the other drops. 31 points against the Eagles would be a huge statement, especially given the smash-mouth way they played most of the game. The offense imposed its will on Philly until the mistakes overloaded the positives. The defense was amazing.
And maybe even in the 2nd half. They didn't account for Swift (getting tired of that joke), but the Chiefs essentially neutralized Hurts and Brown. A difficult feat.
The penalties...it's also getting tiring to hear myself complain about the officiating and they love being 'involved' in the game. But it's getting to the point anytime a ball is thrown in Sneed's direction, there's a yellow marker. It's amazing how well he's able to play considering. And the O-line, sheesh, even Humphrey was allowed to partake.
Agreed. You didn't even mention the blatant DPI on Kelce downfield during the free play. There was a whole SI article about it. That false start vs offsides penalty was also a back breaker given the moment and I literally have never seen that as a fan of the NFL. I still don't understand what they called. Centers consistently put the ball back down to do adjustments like Creed did and the defensive player jumped into the neutral zone causing a reaction by Taylor. Seems pretty clear cut but the difference was 10 yards. Insane
centers DO do that regularly. The rule of thumb is they can't make quick or abrupt movements-- that makes the defense believe the play has begun... They were saying creed did what he did too quickly, and THAT is what the defender reacted to.. Terrible call. Didnt look any different from any other time he has done it. And that made our 3rd down conversion even harder. That was a TERRIBLE call. And a back breaker
Besides KC wasted two timeouts in the first half because they only had 10 players on the field, once on offense and once on defense. You could hear Kelce yelling on the broadcast "What the f@ck are we doing" while the broadcast showed Reids face repeatedly saying "Stop, stop" haha.
Watching MVS live in the stadium all night, I'm not sure why he's on the field. Stats bear it out that he's one of the least productive receivers in the league. Kelce's fumble reminded me of his one against the Bengals last year. Just can't have it.
Also Toney should return every punt forever.
Kelce's fumble was unbelievably painful, but it's not like the fundamentals were flawed. He had both hands on the ball and, while he was fighting for yards, it wasn't one of those plays where he should have just gone down. Sometimes the other guys make plays too. Roby managed to punch the ball in the perfect spot to get it to squirt out in spite of Kelce doing what you're supposed to do to maintain ball control.
That was a great defensive play. Like everyone, I was yelling Kelce in real time. Then saw the replay.
This! Emphatically this! Sometimes the other team makes a great play. It sucks for us as Chiefs fans, but we played a great team last night and came up just short.
MVS should be out by the curb with the rest of our garbage on trash day. This isn't the only game he has been a disappointment. I'm speechless how disjointed our offensive offense has been. Play calling, decisions, execution. As a STH I've seen worse. But out of way worse players. I about don't want to go to the games. I can be pissed off at home without traveling hundreds of miles and devoting a day to it. Translation: They are losing my trust.
Would have to check but wasn't Bell's fumble a few weeks ago at the exact same place on the field? And wasn't Toney's pick 6 around same area.
Maybe we should run plays in the other direction when we are at that end of the field.
I wish Toney wouldn't try to do soooo much. When he's dancing around so much, I'm just waiting for him to fumble the ball.
I also dislike his penchant for fielding punts inside the 10 and sometimes even the 5 yard line. It is simple: put your heels on the 10 and do not back up to field a punt.
I blame the distractions caused by a certain group of podcasters who seemed to think running a joke about sexual innuendo into the ground was more important than putting in extra time on the JUGS machine.
My goodness was that game frustrating. I can't imagine what it was like from Mahomes' perspective.
Was that on the Manning-cast? I usually like when it's just the two of them. But then it gets watered down when guest stars come on with them. A continuous 'jugs' joke sounds more like an 810 theme :)
On Friday's Only Weird Games, an analogy went a bit beyond where I ever would have expected.
Ha. So it WAS 810 based. If they'd have had Steven St. John on, they could've gotten lots of mileage out of it. (Can't think of any good suitable jokes at the moment. I'll have go back to junior high and sneak in to watch "Porky's")
LOLOLOLOLOL dangit Tracey I try to keep them in line!
The team is incredibly frustrating to watch. The only solution, in my mind, is to blow up the receiver room this offseason. Start with Rice, Toney and Moore (all on rookie contracts) and bring in at least two new receivers who have proven themselves in the league. The turnovers and penalties are frustrating, for sure, but the dropped passes are simply a concentration issue and there’s no excuse for them to continue at the rate they have all season.
Treat the WR room like we did the OL a couple years ago
Just replace MVS with DHop in the off season like Veach should have done last off season. He's on a two year contract with Tennessee that I think he can get out of his second year. You have to think Veach, Mahomes and Hopkins are regretting there decisions.
I'm sure you are correct. I need to stay away from comments after a loss. I really do appreciate your writing on the Chiefs. Please ignore me...I'm just so sick at how they lost.
Hey, you and I both! We're on the same side, and I can't blame you one bit for being frustrated at all! It was a gross game :(
This is a safe place for venting. I stayed up 2 hours after the game and then stared at the ceiling another two hours after that.
The one thing we know is that our team has rock solid leadership. Reid and Mahomes know how to learn from setbacks and inspire the team to get better. One bad game does not spill into the next with this team.
Right on.... Its middle of the Season and we played a good team. ALOT can happen in 2 months. We stay healthy, Reid and Co. will fix this... We are better roster wise than previous years: Notwithstanding the WR room.
All quite accurate!
Philadelphia is currently the best team in the NFL and we should have won by 10 points, if we just had average receivers. We still almost beat them anyway. I'm guessing we see them or the 49ers in the SB.
If we get there. 🙏
Drops bad, fumble bad, but worst bad was Pat's underthrow in end zone resulting in interception.
My 2 cents.
Heartbreaking game. We are spoiled, as you note @Seth, but goodness some rain is not excuse for profressional receivers to drop passes over and over. Watson and MVS may not have what it takes. The youngins maybe, but we will never know unless Andy give them a realistic shot.
I was at the game. The rain wasn't that bad at all. It was mainly misting during the game
I believe Mike Tomlin said it best:
“They can catch the ball or they can get replaced by those that will catch it. It’s just as simple as that. Like I’ve often said, I expect guys to make routine plays routinely. When there’s a pattern of that not happening, then we have to look at who we throw the ball to.”
Thank goodness that man doesn't have a great QB to work with. I think he may be the best coach in the league.
Andy would never say that b/c it's way too many words. "Got to do better" is about all you get from him (week after week after week)
The offense needs some good ole EB ass kicking!
Not sure if the film agrees with it, or even how to check data on it, but just on what I'm seeing live -- I feel like the Chiefs don't throw over the middle with any consistency. This makes them really predictable, since every route drawn up so that inevitable drops aren't INTs. Which lets defenders adjust and cheat a bit as the game goes on, and the 2nd half offensive numbers show it.
I think this may be because Kelce's routes go over the middle, and he is double / triple teamed all the time now.
This article was cathartic and brilliantly summed up what happened and how I feel. Thank you for this gift. On the positive side: the Chiefs are half a game back for 1st in the AFC and just lost a game they should have won against arguably the best team in the NFL. It could be worse.
Endorse every word. Can you imagine if this game was how Super Bowl had played out? We are lucky it was in November.
Glad you mentioned Jakobi Meyers. There had been so much discussion about the Chiefs needing a top tier ($$$$) WR, but that never seemed feasible. However, you suggest that a red chip player...or two... like him could have worked out nicely. (I forget how blue chip vs. red chip is supposed to be used in the context of football or art).
Even more than Mahomes or the fans, it seems like this defense is being robbed of a season that will be difficult to replicate next year.
I agree that Veach and Reid missed on evaluating the receivers this year and there need to be major changes next season. But for this season, what needs to happen is for MVS to be inactive every game, Watson to be on the field 25% of the snaps (so Mahomes can’t target him every time), and Moore 25%. Which would leave the majority of snaps (besides Kelce) for the guy they take out every time he catches the ball who happens to be their best receiver, Toney, Hartman, maybe James, and Noah Gray who seems to have disappeared.
Just a frustrating loss. It was there for the taking and the Chiefs did what they do best, and that’s beat themselves
I know I’m just rationalizing but is it possible that during the bye they took your advice and decided to stop playing musical chairs at receiver and decided to feature a wide receiver each week until one steps up, and this was Watson’s week? I mean that seems pretty unscientific, especially against a quality opponent, but I was hoping they could fix things during the bye week and now that that didn’t pan out, I got to keep moving the goal post to find reasons to be optimistic and hopeful. Right?
Speaking of optimism, not bad short yardage this week (aside from that one punt).
Endlessly frustrating to watch Rice make a nice play and immediately head to the sideline. Maybe Veach needs to what he did to Spags when he kept playing Hitchens over Bolton, just release people and force Reid to play the youngsters.
Does Veach get to do anything without Reid and Hunt saying it’s okay?
Nah, I'm sure Reid makes the calls on offensive players at least. And boy are those wideouts offensive 😆😂