I don't know, I've never reviewed him much to be honest. I don't trust LV to really develop guys so I'm sure there's untapped talent there, but it would definitely depend on cost.
I think it would depend entirely on price. He's been OK this year, though not a foundational guy or consistent enough as a pass rusher to be someone I'd view as who you want as your 2nd "guy" (or maybe even your 3rd "guy").
What makes it sort of interesting for me is that despite him feeling much older because he's been in the league so long, he's only 29 years old. So he should (in theory) have several years left at his current level.
That said, I don't know that they've gotten a lot out of him that you couldn't get out of free agency signings that don't break the bank. But that's complicated by the fact that his contract next year is much larger than that, so they HAVE to cut him loose from it.
My guess is that they cut him from the deal and let him explore FA with a "come back if the market isn't what you're hoping" thought.
I have admired how hard he’s worked to overcome what appears to be a serious health issue…and clean up his act off the field. He’s been a great mentor, too.
I like Frank Clark the person. For me, it's all about efficient payroll allocation, and I think locking up a league average player (even at a league average salary) is usually not a great allocation strategy for a team with elite talent that also needs to be paid. If Frank Clark wants the 3rd DE money (say, $3 million with incentives like Dunlap), great. But if he wants starter money, it's time to draft another DE and sign a new rotational piece to be the mentor. I'd rather keep Dunlap than Clark at this point.
I see there are 235 replies so I'm confident my mailbag questions have been covered by another commenter. I will eventually read all. Happy New Year, Seth and CITN subscribers!
Would you rather: 1.) only eat tombstone pizza for the rest of your life but attend any chiefs games you want in person in a team provided box or 2.) have a free personal chef but never get to watch the chiefs in person again?
Will the Chiefs coach change? Sorenson and Niemann last year, Justin Watson this year? Should they change their approach to younger players being kept off the field?
Well, Spags has largely leaned on young guys this season, so that's been different.
Andy is always going to value execution, and given a few of the errors from Moore (when to bend routes) and how costly they were, I'm guessing that set him back. My hope is to see more of Moore, of course, but Andy is who he is and his offense is just so precise.
If the chiefs have the ability to draft will Anderson, but it means trading away Chris Jones, How do you explain this trade to your children after it’s completed?
hahahaha Will Anderson, the "probably once in a generation pass rushing prospect" Will Anderson? I'll entertain hypotheticals that'll never happen just for fun :)
If the Chiefs could trade Jones straight up for a pick that they knew would land them Will Anderson (that'd be tough to pull off), I wouldn't freak out given the allocation of resources argument (contract amounts, etc). If they traded him and additional capital I wouldn't be happy.
But it would have to be for a guaranteed blue-chip prospect like him for me to even think about it with a single first round pick. So if, for example, a team offered a 1st that was in the 20's and a 2nd, I wouldn't be interested.
I think they need to continue to re-make the front 4 and continue to add to the body count in the secondary. They look (tentatively) like they hit a MAJOR home run with their CB selections, and I expect they'll extend Sneed, so it'd be more continuing to add to the safety room if Thornhill walks in FA.
I think it’s always been obvious that unrealistic expectations breed disappointment. That can be in life and in football. When we expect the chiefs to lose and they lose…it doesn’t hurt as much.
The problem with Mahomes is that, if he is playing, we COULD win every game we play so expectations are through the roof every season and every down of football. My question: how are Chiefs fans supposed to objectively view this team through any other lens than Super Bowl or bust? We’ve tasted the sweet nectar of winning the big one and anything less than that feels hollow. However, we won’t win it every year…how are we supposed to set our expectations are a healthy level!?
It's almost impossible to view it any other way, for sure!
I'd say it this way... winning the Super Bowl is insanely hard. Tom Brady's unprecedented run has sort of messed with peoples' perceptions of how many SB victories an elite QB should gather in a career. People think that falling well short of 7 is a failure because look at Brady, but the reality is literally no one else has come close. In fact, only 3 QB's in history not named Brady have more than 2:
Joe Montana – 4
Terry Bradshaw – 4
Troy Aikman – 3
That means some of the best QB's in history (MOST of them, actually, because no one is seriously arguing that Aikman or Bradshaw are top 10 or even top 15 QB's all time) have gone without more than one ring. And some don't even have that.
So that's the thing to understand... Brady was something the NFL has never seen, an unprecedented pairing of skill and luck. Luck to be with the greatest defensive coach in history. Luck to be part of the weakest division in football the vast majority of his career (for homefield and bye weeks). Luck with injury. Luck with multiple things outside his control (like Dee Ford lining up offsides, the tuck rule, the Falcons melting down, etc).
None of that should take away from Brady's greatness. He's been GREAT. But it's not like his greatness was more than Manning's/Marino's/Montana's or other "all time great QB" guys. And to expect Mahomes to have that same sort of luck is... well, it's tough.
How do the rookies (McDuffie Karloftis Pacheco Moore etc) compare to other teams rookies? Seems like we are getting unprecedented production from these guys.
The Chiefs are getting more snaps out of their defense than almost any other team in terms of rookies. Not so on offense (though Pacheco is starting to help more with that).
The short answer is that the Chiefs have multiple players who look like they belong on the field from one draft class: McDuffie, Karlaftis, Cook, Williams, Watson, and Pacheco have all shown they can carry a "starter" role and at least be a non-weakness. That's an incredible number, and when one factors in that multiple guys there have flashed the ability to be more than average (we'll see what the future holds, not everyone develops) the class looks highly promising.
And then you throw in Moore and (lately) Chenal showing at least flashes of talent... it could end up being one of the best draft classes I've ever seen. The one thing that could hold it back would be if no one develops into a genuine star player.
Could you comment on the role, contract, and performance of MVS and how that influences whether the Chiefs can/should resign JuJu. Thanks and happy new year!
I think MVS and Juju have such different roles in terms of routes that one does not affect the other! MVS's contract hit is a bit high next year, but not out of control considering the receiver market. And again, because he's asked to be the deep ball guy (with a few other contributions here and there), what he does vs what Juju does aren't impacting one another.
I think for Juju the entire conversation will be about numbers. I think that will determine whether he's in KC next year.
For Juju it doesn't make sense unless he's being offered a genuinely big contract. And because he got hurt again this year for a time, KC may not be offering that right now. He's had a solid year, but concussions are obviously a concern at this point. But he's a big postseason performance (or several) from being a major player in FA.
The best advice I ever received: "Try."
My dad told me that when I asked him how to be a good dad (when I was 22 and about to marry Jas). He said that if you just try, REALLY try, it will be enough nearly every time. It's just difficult to always try, and that's why there's so much failure of dads (and in other areas). But that's it. Try. Do your best. Show up. It really is that simple.
I haven't always followed it, but I've TRIED to try :). And it's served me well.
It's really a day by day thing. Some days I'm up at 4. Other days I'm up at 7:25 (the exact time I need to get out of bed to be at the office by 8).
On average, I'm usually at the office an hour (or a little more) early to check emails and catch up on any busywork. I'll work on football stuff during that time as well. During the day I split my attention between lawyer work and football work (doing football work at times I might take breaks). I generally do film study early in the morning before office hours so as to not distract others, and I record pods/etc in the evenings.
My goal is to make it home by 5:30 on normal days, and by at least 8 on busier days. Once I'm home, the goal is to be VERY present with the kids and wife for at least a couple of hours. Then, I do any work that's needed once Jas has gone to bed!
Pele, the GOAT soccer player and Brazil's biggest sports hero, sadly passed away yesterday. Do you ever watch soccer, or have interest in it? What do you think about this sport?
Side note: I'd love to see content as deep as yours about Corinthians, my soccer club here in Brazil, but analysts in general are very shallow. Hopefullly that will change someday.
Where do you find the streams for Brazilian football, Paulo? I'd be interested in watching those matches if/when I can. I'm an Arsenal supporter and have really just gotten into the game in the last 5-6 years. My only lament is that I waited until my late 30s to get into it.
I have not. I just never developed a love for it, and was never really exposed to it! So I don't really understand what I'm looking at when I watch the action. Much of my love for football stems from my understanding of how each little thing affects other little things and creates a whole picture, and I just don't have that for soccer. But many people I deeply respect tell me it's a similarly nuanced sport!
Appreciate the reply, Seth! Maybe one entertaining way to take a peek into soccer, if you'd like, would be to watch Ted Lasso on Apple TV - the premise is "US Football Coach is hired to manage an UK Footbal (soccer) squad", it's very light and cozy fun!
Based on KT’s persistent injuries, I predict Veach is hard looking for a solid deep threat. I like KT and wish he wasn’t injured so much. I’ll be curious to see how Mecole does in a different org (if he leaves).
Susan I'm hopeful that KT will be much healthier if he spends the off season working with Rick Burkholder and staff. And around veterans that will be happy to share their wisdom about taking care of his body. Not making excuses for him but he seems a lot more motivated since leaving NY. Or I'm totally wrong and he's got Sammy Watkins hamstrings.
Okay, I have a bit of a doozy. This is far more negative than I usually am.
First off, let me say that I am as big of a Mahomes fan as anyone. He is my favorite Chief, I think he's literally the best in the league and maybe the best of all time. I have almost zero complaints about his on-field play and he seems like a good dude off the field. He represents the organization and city well.
Having said that, here's one possible exception: do you think he shows up his teammates too much on the field? Seems like after a lot of drops I see on TV they will show a cut back to Mahomes looking exasperated and/or yelling at the guy about the mistake he made. Seems like there is a fine line of holding guys accountable vs. being a guy no one wants to play with. There is also more than one way to skin a cat, re: leadership. But sometimes I feel like Mahomes is more on the Kobe/MJ side of things than people realize, and I wonder if it has a downside.
Relatedly, I wonder if any of our team culture has contributed to why we haven't been able to land some FAs we were interested in.
I’m not Seth, but I watch closely for that kind of thing. I have never seen Mahomes be assy to his teammates. I feel his teammates like him and many, like JuJu came to KC to play with Patrick. The media doesn’t talk about it (and they would if they saw it). Could you be misinterpreting something?
I am genuinely interested in Adam’s question but I have to side with Susan. I feel he is remarkably measured and stoic on the field. But perhaps I am missing some moments. Looking forward to Seth’s take.
I wish I could point to specific moments with video proof; they have DEFINITELY happened. Maybe "showing up" is too strong of a word but he definitely doesn't hide his frustration at times. We all know this is the case with all the EB drama (that is, we have the video evidence of them getting heated), whether or not you think that's a serious thing or just a normal part of their process.
There were the cases earlier in the season where he was pointing to the hole that CEH should run through, I've seen a ton of stuff where he seems frustrated when there is miscommunication with guys on their routes. Feel like he called out Pacheco on a missed block? Maybe some drops too.
I do think he's a good teammate overall and he and Travis have my favorite bromance in all of sports. I think the team likes him. But I wonder if it doesn't work for everyone. As counterpoints to JuJu/Travis I would point out the comments by Hill and Watkins after they had left, trying to downplay Patrick and pump up their new guys.
I’d also side with Susan. PMII holds everyone accountable to high standards as he does himself. A lot of times he’s throwing to a spot and expects the receiver to be there. The throw is made before the break.
He seems like the first one to admit when he makes a mistake when it happens.
When I think of someone “exasperated and/or yelling at the guy” I think of Aaron R. Ugh he rarely ever admits his mistakes. (I know you never even mentioned his name so that’s just my opinion of someone who shows up his teammates and doesn’t Cary the same rapport.
But...No one is perfect unfortunately even Mahomes.
I agree he takes accountability in press conferences. On the field he can get animated when guys aren't doing their jobs. As I said in my OP, this is kind of a double-edged sword, it can be good but I wonder if it has a downside, MJ/Kobe style. I don't think Pat is remotely as pathological as either of them overall, I'm just suggesting it's a side he has.
Kind of bizarre to me that no one seems to be able to think of any examples of what I'm talking about, or at least Rorshach them into something else...
I've totally seen him yelling, gesturing, given them a "look" for sure, so you're not crazy!! But I've seen his receivers jump up and down or throw up their hands when they think they're open too, and it doesn't seem to bother him. I think you want that "WE HAD IT" exasperation of competitiveness so long as it doesn't interfere with the relationship!
I found it funny that OP compared Mahomes' exasperation with MJ/Kobe, because 1. Those are two of the most successful players of all-time, whose competitiveness made them perennial champions like few others in NBA history, and 2. I worry that Mahomes is too nice of a guy sometimes - always picking his teammates up and putting accountability squarely on his own shoulders, instead of distributing it and holding his teammates accountable. So maybe that means he's a good balance!
I think it's a good observation and at least a conversation worth having! It's all in a balance, but generally as long as the player who is being hard on teammates is backing it up with his play and is putting in the work, it doesn't lead to resentment (usually).
I've seen him bark at teammates too. What I don't know: What he's saying. He may be berating them, or he may be coaching them. I suspect it's the latter, but given what we hear from him on the sideline, I suspect Mahomes is a great motivator and coach.
I don't, no. I see that from almost all veteran quarterbacks, particularly ones that are tasked (your Brady's, Manning's, Rodgers', etc) with being THE offense and THE franchise. It's part of the accountability process. From everything I'm told his teammates adore him but also understand he's a homicidal maniac in terms of competition.
FA is 99.99999% about money, and never let anyone convince you otherwise!
I could add that while maybe it's comparable to elite NFL QBs, I don't remember a *Chiefs* QB doing that before, maybe that's why it sticks out to me. Green, Smith, Cassel, etc. Obviously they weren't on Patrick's level and that's probably the difference. But it's noticeable to me.
I very much agree that I haven't seen it a ton from Chiefs' QB's outside occasional quick moments!
I do think that this team is more Mahomes' than any other QB in Chiefs' history. Under Green and Smith, the coaches were the primary presence on offense. Under Mahomes, it's a little different given his (as you said) level!
I don't know, I've never reviewed him much to be honest. I don't trust LV to really develop guys so I'm sure there's untapped talent there, but it would definitely depend on cost.
What are your thoughts on the possibility of bringing Frank Clark back?
I think it would depend entirely on price. He's been OK this year, though not a foundational guy or consistent enough as a pass rusher to be someone I'd view as who you want as your 2nd "guy" (or maybe even your 3rd "guy").
What makes it sort of interesting for me is that despite him feeling much older because he's been in the league so long, he's only 29 years old. So he should (in theory) have several years left at his current level.
That said, I don't know that they've gotten a lot out of him that you couldn't get out of free agency signings that don't break the bank. But that's complicated by the fact that his contract next year is much larger than that, so they HAVE to cut him loose from it.
My guess is that they cut him from the deal and let him explore FA with a "come back if the market isn't what you're hoping" thought.
He’s STILL under contract?! I thought this was the end. He’s like the house guests that won’t leave!
haha one more season. Just less dead money.
I have admired how hard he’s worked to overcome what appears to be a serious health issue…and clean up his act off the field. He’s been a great mentor, too.
I like Frank Clark the person. For me, it's all about efficient payroll allocation, and I think locking up a league average player (even at a league average salary) is usually not a great allocation strategy for a team with elite talent that also needs to be paid. If Frank Clark wants the 3rd DE money (say, $3 million with incentives like Dunlap), great. But if he wants starter money, it's time to draft another DE and sign a new rotational piece to be the mentor. I'd rather keep Dunlap than Clark at this point.
I see there are 235 replies so I'm confident my mailbag questions have been covered by another commenter. I will eventually read all. Happy New Year, Seth and CITN subscribers!
I'll get to all of them!
The iron man of NFL media! 👍
Would you rather: 1.) only eat tombstone pizza for the rest of your life but attend any chiefs games you want in person in a team provided box or 2.) have a free personal chef but never get to watch the chiefs in person again?
EASY one for me, I'll take the Tombstones all day!
That said, I'd definitely need to figure out an exercise regime and appropriate dietary supplements hahaha.
Will the Chiefs coach change? Sorenson and Niemann last year, Justin Watson this year? Should they change their approach to younger players being kept off the field?
Well, Spags has largely leaned on young guys this season, so that's been different.
Andy is always going to value execution, and given a few of the errors from Moore (when to bend routes) and how costly they were, I'm guessing that set him back. My hope is to see more of Moore, of course, but Andy is who he is and his offense is just so precise.
How did you choose the names for your children?
I said, "hey Jas, what do you want to name them?" hahaha
Joking aside, she came up with a few options she liked and I picked between them!
Mystery box season!
If the chiefs have the ability to draft will Anderson, but it means trading away Chris Jones, How do you explain this trade to your children after it’s completed?
Will Anderson?....Wasn't that the character John Wayne played in The Cowboys?
hahahaha Will Anderson, the "probably once in a generation pass rushing prospect" Will Anderson? I'll entertain hypotheticals that'll never happen just for fun :)
If the Chiefs could trade Jones straight up for a pick that they knew would land them Will Anderson (that'd be tough to pull off), I wouldn't freak out given the allocation of resources argument (contract amounts, etc). If they traded him and additional capital I wouldn't be happy.
But it would have to be for a guaranteed blue-chip prospect like him for me to even think about it with a single first round pick. So if, for example, a team offered a 1st that was in the 20's and a 2nd, I wouldn't be interested.
But it could be a boat!
I love the content and find myself jonesing for more.
Based on this year's defensive performance, what do you see as defensive priorities for the upcoming free agent class and draft?
Thanks so much!
I think they need to continue to re-make the front 4 and continue to add to the body count in the secondary. They look (tentatively) like they hit a MAJOR home run with their CB selections, and I expect they'll extend Sneed, so it'd be more continuing to add to the safety room if Thornhill walks in FA.
But the main priority should be the front 4 IMO.
I think it’s always been obvious that unrealistic expectations breed disappointment. That can be in life and in football. When we expect the chiefs to lose and they lose…it doesn’t hurt as much.
The problem with Mahomes is that, if he is playing, we COULD win every game we play so expectations are through the roof every season and every down of football. My question: how are Chiefs fans supposed to objectively view this team through any other lens than Super Bowl or bust? We’ve tasted the sweet nectar of winning the big one and anything less than that feels hollow. However, we won’t win it every year…how are we supposed to set our expectations are a healthy level!?
Sweet nectar? PLEASE don't encourage Holthus...
It's almost impossible to view it any other way, for sure!
I'd say it this way... winning the Super Bowl is insanely hard. Tom Brady's unprecedented run has sort of messed with peoples' perceptions of how many SB victories an elite QB should gather in a career. People think that falling well short of 7 is a failure because look at Brady, but the reality is literally no one else has come close. In fact, only 3 QB's in history not named Brady have more than 2:
Joe Montana – 4
Terry Bradshaw – 4
Troy Aikman – 3
That means some of the best QB's in history (MOST of them, actually, because no one is seriously arguing that Aikman or Bradshaw are top 10 or even top 15 QB's all time) have gone without more than one ring. And some don't even have that.
So that's the thing to understand... Brady was something the NFL has never seen, an unprecedented pairing of skill and luck. Luck to be with the greatest defensive coach in history. Luck to be part of the weakest division in football the vast majority of his career (for homefield and bye weeks). Luck with injury. Luck with multiple things outside his control (like Dee Ford lining up offsides, the tuck rule, the Falcons melting down, etc).
None of that should take away from Brady's greatness. He's been GREAT. But it's not like his greatness was more than Manning's/Marino's/Montana's or other "all time great QB" guys. And to expect Mahomes to have that same sort of luck is... well, it's tough.
So compare Mahomes to history, not just to Brady.
So perfectly said.
My wife asked me if I had seen the dog bowl.....I said I didn't know he could.....does your dog bowl?
Is that similar to a woodchuck chucking wood?
Not quite...😁
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
(I laughed)
Well....you're a dad...its now ingrained in your psyche to like these kind of jokes...😆😅🤣
How do the rookies (McDuffie Karloftis Pacheco Moore etc) compare to other teams rookies? Seems like we are getting unprecedented production from these guys.
The Chiefs are getting more snaps out of their defense than almost any other team in terms of rookies. Not so on offense (though Pacheco is starting to help more with that).
The short answer is that the Chiefs have multiple players who look like they belong on the field from one draft class: McDuffie, Karlaftis, Cook, Williams, Watson, and Pacheco have all shown they can carry a "starter" role and at least be a non-weakness. That's an incredible number, and when one factors in that multiple guys there have flashed the ability to be more than average (we'll see what the future holds, not everyone develops) the class looks highly promising.
And then you throw in Moore and (lately) Chenal showing at least flashes of talent... it could end up being one of the best draft classes I've ever seen. The one thing that could hold it back would be if no one develops into a genuine star player.
Could you comment on the role, contract, and performance of MVS and how that influences whether the Chiefs can/should resign JuJu. Thanks and happy new year!
I think MVS and Juju have such different roles in terms of routes that one does not affect the other! MVS's contract hit is a bit high next year, but not out of control considering the receiver market. And again, because he's asked to be the deep ball guy (with a few other contributions here and there), what he does vs what Juju does aren't impacting one another.
I think for Juju the entire conversation will be about numbers. I think that will determine whether he's in KC next year.
Two questions/topics. For bonus points, obviously.
Why hasn't Veach resigned Juju, like yesterday? Any reasons why the Chiefs wouldn't want to keep him around?
What is the best piece of advice you've ever received? Did you listen to it?
For Juju it doesn't make sense unless he's being offered a genuinely big contract. And because he got hurt again this year for a time, KC may not be offering that right now. He's had a solid year, but concussions are obviously a concern at this point. But he's a big postseason performance (or several) from being a major player in FA.
The best advice I ever received: "Try."
My dad told me that when I asked him how to be a good dad (when I was 22 and about to marry Jas). He said that if you just try, REALLY try, it will be enough nearly every time. It's just difficult to always try, and that's why there's so much failure of dads (and in other areas). But that's it. Try. Do your best. Show up. It really is that simple.
I haven't always followed it, but I've TRIED to try :). And it's served me well.
Fantastic advice. I almost teared up.
Give us a window into your life man. What does an average day look like for a father of a million kids, full-time attorney, and NFL media member?
It's really a day by day thing. Some days I'm up at 4. Other days I'm up at 7:25 (the exact time I need to get out of bed to be at the office by 8).
On average, I'm usually at the office an hour (or a little more) early to check emails and catch up on any busywork. I'll work on football stuff during that time as well. During the day I split my attention between lawyer work and football work (doing football work at times I might take breaks). I generally do film study early in the morning before office hours so as to not distract others, and I record pods/etc in the evenings.
My goal is to make it home by 5:30 on normal days, and by at least 8 on busier days. Once I'm home, the goal is to be VERY present with the kids and wife for at least a couple of hours. Then, I do any work that's needed once Jas has gone to bed!
Pele, the GOAT soccer player and Brazil's biggest sports hero, sadly passed away yesterday. Do you ever watch soccer, or have interest in it? What do you think about this sport?
Side note: I'd love to see content as deep as yours about Corinthians, my soccer club here in Brazil, but analysts in general are very shallow. Hopefullly that will change someday.
Keep up the great work and have a happy new year!
Love that Seth has a fan in Brazil
Where do you find the streams for Brazilian football, Paulo? I'd be interested in watching those matches if/when I can. I'm an Arsenal supporter and have really just gotten into the game in the last 5-6 years. My only lament is that I waited until my late 30s to get into it.
I have not. I just never developed a love for it, and was never really exposed to it! So I don't really understand what I'm looking at when I watch the action. Much of my love for football stems from my understanding of how each little thing affects other little things and creates a whole picture, and I just don't have that for soccer. But many people I deeply respect tell me it's a similarly nuanced sport!
I appreciate the kind words, happy new year!
Appreciate the reply, Seth! Maybe one entertaining way to take a peek into soccer, if you'd like, would be to watch Ted Lasso on Apple TV - the premise is "US Football Coach is hired to manage an UK Footbal (soccer) squad", it's very light and cozy fun!
I've heard it's terrific!
Since the Chiefs traded for Kadarius Toney, do you think Veach and Reid will extend Mecole Hardman this offseason?
I would be surprised if they did, I think he'll get a decent offer somewhere.
Based on KT’s persistent injuries, I predict Veach is hard looking for a solid deep threat. I like KT and wish he wasn’t injured so much. I’ll be curious to see how Mecole does in a different org (if he leaves).
Susan I'm hopeful that KT will be much healthier if he spends the off season working with Rick Burkholder and staff. And around veterans that will be happy to share their wisdom about taking care of his body. Not making excuses for him but he seems a lot more motivated since leaving NY. Or I'm totally wrong and he's got Sammy Watkins hamstrings.
Okay, I have a bit of a doozy. This is far more negative than I usually am.
First off, let me say that I am as big of a Mahomes fan as anyone. He is my favorite Chief, I think he's literally the best in the league and maybe the best of all time. I have almost zero complaints about his on-field play and he seems like a good dude off the field. He represents the organization and city well.
Having said that, here's one possible exception: do you think he shows up his teammates too much on the field? Seems like after a lot of drops I see on TV they will show a cut back to Mahomes looking exasperated and/or yelling at the guy about the mistake he made. Seems like there is a fine line of holding guys accountable vs. being a guy no one wants to play with. There is also more than one way to skin a cat, re: leadership. But sometimes I feel like Mahomes is more on the Kobe/MJ side of things than people realize, and I wonder if it has a downside.
Relatedly, I wonder if any of our team culture has contributed to why we haven't been able to land some FAs we were interested in.
I’m not Seth, but I watch closely for that kind of thing. I have never seen Mahomes be assy to his teammates. I feel his teammates like him and many, like JuJu came to KC to play with Patrick. The media doesn’t talk about it (and they would if they saw it). Could you be misinterpreting something?
I am genuinely interested in Adam’s question but I have to side with Susan. I feel he is remarkably measured and stoic on the field. But perhaps I am missing some moments. Looking forward to Seth’s take.
Agree with Susan
I wish I could point to specific moments with video proof; they have DEFINITELY happened. Maybe "showing up" is too strong of a word but he definitely doesn't hide his frustration at times. We all know this is the case with all the EB drama (that is, we have the video evidence of them getting heated), whether or not you think that's a serious thing or just a normal part of their process.
There were the cases earlier in the season where he was pointing to the hole that CEH should run through, I've seen a ton of stuff where he seems frustrated when there is miscommunication with guys on their routes. Feel like he called out Pacheco on a missed block? Maybe some drops too.
I do think he's a good teammate overall and he and Travis have my favorite bromance in all of sports. I think the team likes him. But I wonder if it doesn't work for everyone. As counterpoints to JuJu/Travis I would point out the comments by Hill and Watkins after they had left, trying to downplay Patrick and pump up their new guys.
Seth, isn’t it part of QB1’s job to point out problems (e.g. missed hole or block)?
I’d also side with Susan. PMII holds everyone accountable to high standards as he does himself. A lot of times he’s throwing to a spot and expects the receiver to be there. The throw is made before the break.
He seems like the first one to admit when he makes a mistake when it happens.
When I think of someone “exasperated and/or yelling at the guy” I think of Aaron R. Ugh he rarely ever admits his mistakes. (I know you never even mentioned his name so that’s just my opinion of someone who shows up his teammates and doesn’t Cary the same rapport.
But...No one is perfect unfortunately even Mahomes.
I agree he takes accountability in press conferences. On the field he can get animated when guys aren't doing their jobs. As I said in my OP, this is kind of a double-edged sword, it can be good but I wonder if it has a downside, MJ/Kobe style. I don't think Pat is remotely as pathological as either of them overall, I'm just suggesting it's a side he has.
Kind of bizarre to me that no one seems to be able to think of any examples of what I'm talking about, or at least Rorshach them into something else...
I've totally seen him yelling, gesturing, given them a "look" for sure, so you're not crazy!! But I've seen his receivers jump up and down or throw up their hands when they think they're open too, and it doesn't seem to bother him. I think you want that "WE HAD IT" exasperation of competitiveness so long as it doesn't interfere with the relationship!
I found it funny that OP compared Mahomes' exasperation with MJ/Kobe, because 1. Those are two of the most successful players of all-time, whose competitiveness made them perennial champions like few others in NBA history, and 2. I worry that Mahomes is too nice of a guy sometimes - always picking his teammates up and putting accountability squarely on his own shoulders, instead of distributing it and holding his teammates accountable. So maybe that means he's a good balance!
I am betting that like a good coach, Patrick expresses his concerns to teammates privately.
I hope so. I agree that that's the right approach for most guys.
I think it's a good observation and at least a conversation worth having! It's all in a balance, but generally as long as the player who is being hard on teammates is backing it up with his play and is putting in the work, it doesn't lead to resentment (usually).
I've seen him bark at teammates too. What I don't know: What he's saying. He may be berating them, or he may be coaching them. I suspect it's the latter, but given what we hear from him on the sideline, I suspect Mahomes is a great motivator and coach.
I don't, no. I see that from almost all veteran quarterbacks, particularly ones that are tasked (your Brady's, Manning's, Rodgers', etc) with being THE offense and THE franchise. It's part of the accountability process. From everything I'm told his teammates adore him but also understand he's a homicidal maniac in terms of competition.
FA is 99.99999% about money, and never let anyone convince you otherwise!
I could add that while maybe it's comparable to elite NFL QBs, I don't remember a *Chiefs* QB doing that before, maybe that's why it sticks out to me. Green, Smith, Cassel, etc. Obviously they weren't on Patrick's level and that's probably the difference. But it's noticeable to me.
I recall Cassel dressing down the O line once during a game. His lack of standing was reported to have resulted in deaf ears.
I very much agree that I haven't seen it a ton from Chiefs' QB's outside occasional quick moments!
I do think that this team is more Mahomes' than any other QB in Chiefs' history. Under Green and Smith, the coaches were the primary presence on offense. Under Mahomes, it's a little different given his (as you said) level!