This is the one negative I heard of pre-draft that seems to have stuck to an extent - The thought that he tends to drift back, and to the right under pressure. He’s gotten better at this overall but still seems to resort to it at times. Hard to hate though, as it seems like he’s hit so many big throws fading back or stepping up after rolling and evading pressure. I feel like so many of us did this in Madden as kids, so I can actually relate!
yeah, I think his success has hindered his development in this one area. I mean look at WASP, he back peddles forever but gets the play off because he is freaken amazing. I suspect as he gets more experience he will adjust, but it is just going to be a bad habit that is easy for him to fall into at times.
There seem to be some plays/concepts that rely on drifting back or to the opposite side of the field to use his arm strength. But it is a crutch he leans on too much sometimes. Lots to learn from this game.
Last year it took, if I recall correctly, three games for Mahomes to recognize and correct his tendency to drift back. This time it took three quarters. I’d be willing to bet it isn’t an issue next week. I am a little concerned about the tackles, especially Schwartz. He’s had what for him are two subpar games in a row.
Good stuff. Curious, even if OL and Mahomes make necessary adjustments (Mahomes step up in pocket and OL manage assignments correct) it sounds like secondary coverage was still air tight. Presumably we would have seen Mahomes scramble more often, early on? Or maybe he is able to connect with open receivers? Film show a lot of open looks?
Serious question here. Played FB in my youth so not a OL expert, but are interior linemen supposed to back-shuffle off the snap before they see contact from the defense? Seems that Reiter and Wiley are routinely engaging at a farther depth than Osemele. If the front of the pocket drifts backwards, that shrinks the pocket, no? Just appears to me that those two guys tend to drift back before engaging, then lack the strength to anchor when they do so give up even more ground, even if they engage and hold their guys from escaping. I'm gonna have to pay closer attention to that during the Thursday night game to see what other interior lineman do off the snap.
I couldn't tell you in terms of what Heck is asking them to do. They're not taking aggressive sets as often as he does, could be a fear of getting run over.
Seth, is it possible that the line has just not gelled yet. There has always been talk that the line has to learn how to work collectively, as a group, instead of just 5 guys in the same area. You know, passing off stunts & picking up blitzes.
That kind of vertical/cylinder pass set is becoming popular in spread concept offenses. We've tried to do it at the high school I coach at, with limited success vs. a more traditional set. I'm not a big fan of it, but it's a thing.
Good info! Thanks for chiming in. I don't have it in for either of those guys, heck, we won a championship with Reiter manning C, but man, I just worry about their apparent sub-par strength and ability to keep our GOAT healthy.
I knew from the 2nd viewing of the game that PMII was causing part of the problem. Your attention to the details gives a clear picture. I don't know why Pat doesn't trust the pocket to step up and take advantage of it. It appears to be a left-over in his reactions from last season.
So glad you did this breakdown, Seth. As with most things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the extreme takes. One thing I found particularly promising was the in-game adjustments that he made. It's almost better that he had a rough game against a team like the Chargers where Mahomes could still architect a comeback because the defense could hold Herbert and co to six points in the second half. I have confidence that we will see a more disciplined Mahomes in Baltimore on Monday night.
Thanks for the breakdown, Seth. I have two questions I would like to pose to you. First, on a couple of those videos you posted it looks like The Chargers could have been called for roughing the passer. On the play where Fisher is beat the DL obliterates and then falls directly on Mahomes. I thought that was roughing the passer. The second was the last video. Didn’t the defensive player hit him low? Didn’t Jones get called for essentially unthreatening same hit?
Also, I have tried asking Geoff Schwartz and Nick Lecky about this when they discussed Mahomes “drifting” but they never answered. Only other tweeters who didn’t understand what I was asking. Regardless of whether he should or shouldn’t drop so deep it seems to me that there could be a potential reason or advantage to it.
When he drops deeper than he should the D Ends naturally want to fly up the field outside of the O tackles, and they get really deep in comparison to theIr D Tackles. Doesn’t this create an escape “seam” for lack of a better word. Mahomes can step up in the pocket and slip out left or right, leaving Schwartz in Between him and Bosa for instance? It seems like that would be an easier escape than trying to roll backwards and around the pocket and ends. If he doesn’t drop deep I feel like the defensive front should be able to contain him in the pocket and smother him from all sides where he can’t really escape. I know this seems out there, but I just wanted to ask somebody who has watched a lot of film what they thought of this.
Love your analysis. I’m learning so much from your posts & intelligent comments. This sure is a breath of fresh air. AA and AP have really deteriorated over the years - instead of intelligent, interesting commentary it’s now mainly trolling & name calling. Also ....glad PM had this game - he’ll learn from it & hopefully not bring out the tendency at the Baltimore game.
I'm very sorry to hear that about AP, that place holds special sway in my heart! I do love a lot of the people they have there, I'm sure they'll get it worked out!
I believe everything Mahomes sees he develops from. It's uncanny.
Thanks Seth - I love your analysis and I know I have been one of the people pestering you to comment on the O-Line. This does add a lot of context. Sometimes Mahomes does put them in a tough spot because he wanders. This makes it much more clear.
As always solid analysis. I’ve been hearing all week about Mahomes’ drifting, and the failures of the tackles. Nice to see some really thorough analysis here.
That dropping back too far bit is what killed Alex on that horrible 6 game losing streak a few years ago, he finally got over it when they put him under center for part or all of a game and it changed his mindset.
This is the one negative I heard of pre-draft that seems to have stuck to an extent - The thought that he tends to drift back, and to the right under pressure. He’s gotten better at this overall but still seems to resort to it at times. Hard to hate though, as it seems like he’s hit so many big throws fading back or stepping up after rolling and evading pressure. I feel like so many of us did this in Madden as kids, so I can actually relate!
yeah, I think his success has hindered his development in this one area. I mean look at WASP, he back peddles forever but gets the play off because he is freaken amazing. I suspect as he gets more experience he will adjust, but it is just going to be a bad habit that is easy for him to fall into at times.
There seem to be some plays/concepts that rely on drifting back or to the opposite side of the field to use his arm strength. But it is a crutch he leans on too much sometimes. Lots to learn from this game.
Last year it took, if I recall correctly, three games for Mahomes to recognize and correct his tendency to drift back. This time it took three quarters. I’d be willing to bet it isn’t an issue next week. I am a little concerned about the tackles, especially Schwartz. He’s had what for him are two subpar games in a row.
Good stuff. Curious, even if OL and Mahomes make necessary adjustments (Mahomes step up in pocket and OL manage assignments correct) it sounds like secondary coverage was still air tight. Presumably we would have seen Mahomes scramble more often, early on? Or maybe he is able to connect with open receivers? Film show a lot of open looks?
Serious question here. Played FB in my youth so not a OL expert, but are interior linemen supposed to back-shuffle off the snap before they see contact from the defense? Seems that Reiter and Wiley are routinely engaging at a farther depth than Osemele. If the front of the pocket drifts backwards, that shrinks the pocket, no? Just appears to me that those two guys tend to drift back before engaging, then lack the strength to anchor when they do so give up even more ground, even if they engage and hold their guys from escaping. I'm gonna have to pay closer attention to that during the Thursday night game to see what other interior lineman do off the snap.
I couldn't tell you in terms of what Heck is asking them to do. They're not taking aggressive sets as often as he does, could be a fear of getting run over.
You aren't making me feel any better, bro! I need some hope. 😊
Both Reiter and Wylie have been solid in pass pro in the past, so there's hope!
Seth, is it possible that the line has just not gelled yet. There has always been talk that the line has to learn how to work collectively, as a group, instead of just 5 guys in the same area. You know, passing off stunts & picking up blitzes.
To an extent perhaps, but 4 of the 5 starters have been in the system now for years.
That kind of vertical/cylinder pass set is becoming popular in spread concept offenses. We've tried to do it at the high school I coach at, with limited success vs. a more traditional set. I'm not a big fan of it, but it's a thing.
Good info! Thanks for chiming in. I don't have it in for either of those guys, heck, we won a championship with Reiter manning C, but man, I just worry about their apparent sub-par strength and ability to keep our GOAT healthy.
Not a fan of it either.
You know, let's just sit back be thankful that we're talking about the Chiefs scoring a "mere 23 points". I remember the Tyler Palko days.
Amen to that, lol.
I knew from the 2nd viewing of the game that PMII was causing part of the problem. Your attention to the details gives a clear picture. I don't know why Pat doesn't trust the pocket to step up and take advantage of it. It appears to be a left-over in his reactions from last season.
Probably a habit he learned playing behind that sieve at Texas Tech.
It's not a consistent habit, and I think it's difficult to gauge in the moment when it's time to break and when it's time to move up or hang in there.
So glad you did this breakdown, Seth. As with most things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the extreme takes. One thing I found particularly promising was the in-game adjustments that he made. It's almost better that he had a rough game against a team like the Chargers where Mahomes could still architect a comeback because the defense could hold Herbert and co to six points in the second half. I have confidence that we will see a more disciplined Mahomes in Baltimore on Monday night.
Thanks for the breakdown, Seth. I have two questions I would like to pose to you. First, on a couple of those videos you posted it looks like The Chargers could have been called for roughing the passer. On the play where Fisher is beat the DL obliterates and then falls directly on Mahomes. I thought that was roughing the passer. The second was the last video. Didn’t the defensive player hit him low? Didn’t Jones get called for essentially unthreatening same hit?
Also, I have tried asking Geoff Schwartz and Nick Lecky about this when they discussed Mahomes “drifting” but they never answered. Only other tweeters who didn’t understand what I was asking. Regardless of whether he should or shouldn’t drop so deep it seems to me that there could be a potential reason or advantage to it.
When he drops deeper than he should the D Ends naturally want to fly up the field outside of the O tackles, and they get really deep in comparison to theIr D Tackles. Doesn’t this create an escape “seam” for lack of a better word. Mahomes can step up in the pocket and slip out left or right, leaving Schwartz in Between him and Bosa for instance? It seems like that would be an easier escape than trying to roll backwards and around the pocket and ends. If he doesn’t drop deep I feel like the defensive front should be able to contain him in the pocket and smother him from all sides where he can’t really escape. I know this seems out there, but I just wanted to ask somebody who has watched a lot of film what they thought of this.
Keep up the great work!
Love your analysis. I’m learning so much from your posts & intelligent comments. This sure is a breath of fresh air. AA and AP have really deteriorated over the years - instead of intelligent, interesting commentary it’s now mainly trolling & name calling. Also ....glad PM had this game - he’ll learn from it & hopefully not bring out the tendency at the Baltimore game.
I'm very sorry to hear that about AP, that place holds special sway in my heart! I do love a lot of the people they have there, I'm sure they'll get it worked out!
I believe everything Mahomes sees he develops from. It's uncanny.
Thanks Seth - I love your analysis and I know I have been one of the people pestering you to comment on the O-Line. This does add a lot of context. Sometimes Mahomes does put them in a tough spot because he wanders. This makes it much more clear.
There's plenty of blame to be shared, to be sure.
As always solid analysis. I’ve been hearing all week about Mahomes’ drifting, and the failures of the tackles. Nice to see some really thorough analysis here.
What is promising, is that if you see this,
I'm sure Reid and company will see it also. (No offense Seth)
They had better, we got four important games coming up next. Important for playoff seeding and winning our division.
That dropping back too far bit is what killed Alex on that horrible 6 game losing streak a few years ago, he finally got over it when they put him under center for part or all of a game and it changed his mindset.